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The Authoritarians: Chapter 3 Email Print

Chapter 3: How Authoritarian Followers Think

Welcome to Week 3 of my recently declared, possibly temporary Sunday Night Book Club.  I'd been reading Dr. Bob Altemeyer's book, "The Authoritarians", which is published free online at the link above.  I thought it would make a great topic for discussion amongst progressives here at The Next Agenda.  As a Canadian bonus, Dr. Altemeyer is at the University of Manitoba! Week 1 is the intro and Chapter 1.

Last week, we briefly discussed the two things that work in conjunction to make a Right Wing Authoritarian (RWA) follower prone to commit acts of violence against a target of their leader's choosing.  The instigator is fear, and the releaser is self-righteousness.  We also touched on the fact that experiences are what can change someone from being a blind zombie follower to a somewhat free-thinking person a bit lower on the RWA scale.  

This week, in Chapter 3, we will get into the Seven Deadly Shortfalls of Authoritarian Thinking.  

**Please keep in mind that we all have these qualities within ourselves.  The RWA just has them to a much greater degree.

We super smart,independent, and oh-so-witty lefty bloggers like to bat around the term "cognitive dissonance" when referring to our RWA brethren.  I mean, really, they give us so much to work with.  We ask ourselves how can any human think that way?  Some of them are othewise perfectly nice people who are a lot of fun to be around.  (I get along with one of them so well that she mistook me for someone who would want to read the Republican propaganda email that she sent out to her contact list.  I put the kibosh on that with a quickness.  "Reply to All" is a beautiful thing.)  

What is it about the RWA mind?  What makes them tick?  Dr. Bob Altemeyer gives us the 7 characteristics of authoritarian thought.  

1.) Illogical thinking.

Reasoning should justify the conclusion.  For authoritarian followers, it's the other way around.  If they agree with the conclusion, the reasoning matters not a whit.  Altemeyer used this syllogism as an example:

All fish live in the sea.
Sharks live in the sea..
Therefore, sharks are fish.

The conclusion does not follow, but high RWAs would be more likely to say the
reasoning is correct than most people would. If you ask them why it seems right, they
would likely tell you, "Because sharks are fish." In other words, they thought the
reasoning was sound because they agreed with the last statement. If the conclusion is
right, they figure, then the reasoning must have been right. Or to put it another way,
they don't "get it" that the reasoning matters--especially on a reasoning test

.

2.) Highly compartmentalized mind.

  Think of the files on your computer.  Your computer can store two files that say completely opposite things and not lose a wink of sleep.  Think of your crazy ass right winger Uncle in the same way.  When he says, "'Merka is the greatest country in the world because of our freedom!" at Christmas dinner, and at dessert says that anyone who criticizes the president is a "damn traitor and should be rounded up with the rest of the libruls and be sent to Gitmo!", he really believes both statements.  They lack integration.  This is how they can say they believe in a loving, merciful God and that their Saviour is the Prince of Peace, and at the same time cheerlead for war and domestic terrorism.  Some of them want a nuclear holocaust so that the Prince of Peace will return and kill the remaining non-believers.  Or something.  

3.)Double standards.

They hold their leaders and others who agree with them to a different standard than everybody else.  This comes up a lot in discussion threads about abortion.  Inevitably, someone who used to work in a clinic tells a story about a protester who ends up bringing her young teenage daughter in for an abortion.  You see, she's a good girl and she's too young to have a baby.  It'll ruin her life.  The other women in the waiting room, and those coming and going from the clinic who she harasses on a weekly basis are sluts and sinners.  Or take Ted Haggard's defenders.  The man made himself a very wealthy and influential figure in the Christian Right by railing against the evils of homosexuality.  All the while, he was taking up with a male prostitute, meeting for what we can safely assume were binges of sweaty, crystal meth-fueled hardcore man-on-man action.  But it's forgivable - he's one of them.  They agree with his message that homosexuality is evil and will bring about the destruction of society, but Haggard was one of their leaders, so he will be forgiven, unlike all of the other godless sodomites who are destined to suffer in hell for eternity.  You get the idea.

4.)Hypocrisy.  

See above.  Also see "IOKIYAR" in the US and "IOKIYAC" in Canada.  We could run out of bandwidth listing the hypocrisy of the RWAs.  

5.)Blindess to themselves

From Dr. Altemeyer:

If you ask people how much integrity they personally have, guess who pat
themselves most on the back by claiming they have more than anyone else. This one
is easy if you remember the findings on self-righteousness from the last chapter: high
RWAs think they had lots more integrity than others do. Similarly when I asked
students to write down, anonymously, their biggest faults, right-wing authoritarians
wrote down fewer than others did, mainly because a lot of them said they had no big
faults. When I asked students if there was anything they were reluctant to admit about
themselves to themselves, high RWAs led everyone else in saying, no, they were
completely honest with themselves.

So that would be like that Yoshida fellow reading this diary and saying to himself, "Yeah, stupid authoritarians! They suck! We should round them up and drop a bomb on them!"  Ahem.  

6.)Profound ethnocentrism.

There is little to no neutrality in ethnocentrism.  It's where the "you're either with us or against us" meme comes from.  RWAs basically look solely to their 'in group' for ideas and opinions.  They get constant reinforcement in their bubble.  That's where those influencing experiences come in.  If you can get them away from their insular groups, there is a chance that they will experience something that may pry open that rigidness a bit.  Maybe even a lot.  But good luck with that:

Most of us associate with people who agree with us on many issues. Birds of
a feather do, empirically, tend to flock together. But this is especially important to
authoritarians, who have not usually thought things out, explored possibilities,
considered alternate points of view, and so on, but acquired their beliefs from the
authorities in their lives. They then maintain their beliefs against new threats by
seeking out those authorities, and by rubbing elbows as much as possible with people
who have the same beliefs.

Loyalty to the group or the movement is tantamount, and dissent is not tolerated.  Don't believe me?  Visit the blog Redstate some time, register, and try to make a comment that says something other than "I'd sell my mother into slavery for George W Bush.  God bless our president".  

Of course, this is not just a problem on the right side of the political spectrum.  I was reminded of Frank Frink's recent comment:

Truth be told, I used to be quite active in the old Greenpeace etc... environmental advocacy movement and that was actually part of the reason I relocated to Vancouver. The seal hunt was the issue that made me turn my back on them, hard.

Without going into a whole lot of detail... it was on that issue that I discovered that volunteers were being lied to and being coached in repeating those lies in order to raise funds. I'm not saying that specific to Greenpeace, they are only one example. Sea Shepherd is far, far worse. That was also around the time that I witnessed the full-on bullying force of Paul Watson. He's a very ugly man - I don't mean that in the physical sense.

'They' lost me when they lied, got caught in the lie, refused to acknowledge the lie, and instead of admitting the lie my 'true values' and 'committment to the planet' were questioned (inquisitioned?).. that sort of stuff. (Where else have we heard those types of things, eh?).

Luckily for us, Frank Frink is no authoritarian follower.  His response?

I told them to go piss up a rope. I haven't donated to or volunteered for any of those organizations in over 25 years.

7.)Dogmatism

From Dr. Altemeyer:

It's easy to see why authoritarian followers would be dogmatic, isn't it? When
you haven't figured out your beliefs, but instead absorbed them from other people,
you're really in no position to defend them from attack. Simply put, you don't know
why the things you believe are true. Somebody else decided they were, and you're
taking their word for it. So what do you do when challenged?

Well first of all you avoid challenges by sticking with your own kind as much
as possible, because they're hardly likely to ask pointed questions about your beliefs.
But if you meet someone who does, you'll probably defend your ideas as best you can,
parrying thrusts with whatever answers your authorities have pre-loaded into your
head. If these defenses crumble, you may go back to the trusted sources. They
probably don't have to give you a convincing refutation of the anxiety-producing
argument that breached your defenses, just the assurance that you nonetheless are
right. But if the arguments against you become overwhelming and persistent, you
either concede the point--which may put the whole lot at risk--or you simply insist you
are right and walk away, clutching your beliefs more tightly than ever.

Of course, this has been a basic outline of the thought process, or lack thereof, of the RWA, meant to spark discussion.  The chapter goes into the subject more indepth and I encourage you to read it for yourself.  Also, remember that Dr. Altemeyer is a serious researcher.  He has written The Authoritarians, and published it for free online, so that this profile of the authoritarian mindset is more accessible than the more dry, scholarly research that he does at the University of Manitoba.

Learning what we have in the first three chapters of The Authoritarians, it's easier to see how so many people can be turned into monsters, willing to stab, slice, chop, rape, and shoot other humans for the glory of their ideological authorities.  They are easy targets for unscrupulous leaders who will exploit their lack of critical thinking and their willingness to overlook blatant and malicious lies if they are given a conclusion that they can agree with.  Their insulated environment and constant reinforcement can render them impervious to logical thinking.  Their ability to believe in two things that are in direct opposition means that 'thou shall not kill' and 'slaughter my enemies' are taken in together without the least bit of irony.  It's how the Inquisition happened.  It's how the Nazis, Fascists and Communists happened.  It's how Rwanda and Darfur is happening.  It's how the invasion of Iraq happened and the occupation continues.  What's next?  Shudder to think.  

Poll

The Man is:
who I'm working for and I couldn't be happier. 0%
the leader that we love! Long live The Man! 0%
okay as long as he signs my paycheque and stays out of my face. 20%
a necessary evil rung on our societal ladder. 40%
who I most like to stick it to. 60%
the bringer of pie. 60%

Votes: 5 | Comments: 29
Results | Other Polls
Sorry for the late post.  I got way more into this than I had planned on.  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 12:00:35 AM EST

"The Man. Oh, you don't know The Man? The Man's everywhere: in the White House, down the hall, Miss Mullins; she's The Man! And The Man ruined the ozone, and he's burning down the Amazon and he kidnapped Shamu and put her in a chlorine tank! Okay! And there used to be a way to stick it to The Man, it was called rock 'n roll. But guess what? Oh no! The Man ruined that too with a little thing called MTV! So don't waste your time trying to make anything cool or pure or awesome 'cause The Man's just gonna call you a fat washed up loser and crush your soul. So do yourself a favor and just give up!"

- Jack Black in "School of Rock"

December, 1997 - The Onion's 'Man of the Year Award' goes to... 'The Man'

This year, no man has distinguished himself by relentlessly dominating society, controlling the global marketplace, and keeping the little guy down quite like the man we honor here today, and that man is The Man.

NBA stadium-crowd chants of, "He's the man, he's the man!" notwithstanding, the truth remains that only one man is truly the man, and that's The Man.

Though countless agitators, malcontents and miscreants may exhort their fellow disaffected outsiders to "F*k The Man," the undeniable fact remains that The Man will never be f*ed, because nobody f*ks with The Man.

Who is The Man? The Man is, quite simply, the shit.

Frinky D. Clown don't play that, either.

Homey the clown, don't mess around,
Even though the Man, try to keep him down.
One day Homey will, break all the chains,
Then he'll fly away, but until that day,
Homey don't play.

The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

by Frank Frink on 05/07/2007 07:27:01 PM EST

Hope you don't mind that I quoted you.  But you Stuck It To The Man, so I couldn't resist.  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 08:47:38 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Looong, rough day.  Meant to put that 'thanks' under the comment where you said 'great summary'.  

I need a drink.  Heh.

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 08:50:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
bop 'em with the rock in the sock.

The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

by Frank Frink on 05/07/2007 09:59:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]
 authority--- and those who are suckers for it as not-so-carefully-thinking followers----whether they happen to be of the political "Left wing" or the "Right Wing".  Uder a communist regime, the RWAs are followers of the established communist order--its being "Left wing" having an incidental connection to the "Right" in "RWA".

  One thing I had not been prepared for is the  truly amazing lack of familiarity with various areas of knowledge on which certain conservative Americans  are upposed to  place great importance.

   "Christian evangelists" (fundamentalists)--and largely ignorant of the Bible they supposedly so revere??!!

  I've found a similarly amazing ignorance of even the most basic and well-established principles of economics.  Have RWAs, who are staunch advocates of a so-called "free  market" actually read any more than the  most over-simplified popular tracts on economics--with one-sided uncritical glowing presentations of capitalism? From what I've found in asking them, no, they haven't.

   Keynes, Smith, Ricardo, Marx?    Never read any of their writings, say some the very convinced conservative people who comment  with great "authority" on popular blogs; okay, but then have they ever read any reputable commentaries on any of these economists/philosophers?

   Er, again, nope, typically not, when I've aksed about it.

 So, what about some of their heroes? F.A. Hayek or Milton Friedman?

  A few have read all or parts of Hayek's The Road to Serfdom.  That has instilled a healthy suspicion for those who would lead them into Left-wing-dominated serfdom all right, but it affords them no protection from an invitation to become serfs under a  right-wing capitalist's version of serfdom.  

   Behind their iron-clad certainty there is little or nothing in the way of informed knowledge.

by proximity1 on 05/07/2007 11:54:45 AM EST

... the truly amazing lack of familiarity with various areas of knowledge ...

I agree with your point.  I feel it is way more wide spread than that.  Most of the general population of the Western world has only a passing grasp of economics, political systems, psychology or most anything.  We know what we read in the paper ( if we read a paper ) or we believe what we hear from the smartest people at our place of work.

That is one reason that I like 'google' and this site.  It is a place to learn, if one is so inclined.

You write a good comment, thanks.

Here's a golden oldie - Conserve Water / Shower with a friend

by willy be frantic on 05/08/2007 01:02:08 AM EST

[ Parent ]
HT to the choice is yours at DKos.

PBS is going to run a three part series about the history of atheism.  How has this woman's head not exploded yet?

Janice Crouse, director of the Beverly LaHaye Institute for the conservative group Concerned Women for America, told Cybercast News Service that "airing the program gives credibility and cohesiveness to individuals who seek to undermine the beliefs and values on which democracy and the American dream are founded."

"One has to wonder why it is so important to them for everyone to understand their 'disbelief,'" she said. "The program is not a dispassionate, positive voice - as they claim. Instead, it is clearly demagogic and propagandistic."

*emphasis mine - prole

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 12:18:37 AM EST

Thanks for the clear summation...

As an aside, as many of you know Im not a fan of organized religion.
And not more against any one in particular.
Even in the pagan groups, theres the power struggles, the "Your either with us, or against us stuff"...Do as your told, and dont ask questions stuff.
Authoritarianism sucks from anyone. Left or right, christian or non christian.
Thats the mindset that causes strife and wars.

I support the separation of Church and Hate....

by Pale on 05/07/2007 12:53:33 AM EST

Almeyer did all the work for me.  It was just a book report, really. ;-)

I know what you mean about the power struggles.  People are people and every group will have leaders, followers, and those who want to live and let live.  Me?  I fall into the latter.

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 12:58:57 AM EST

[ Parent ]
"Hmmmmmm", thought I, "is there such a creature as a Left Wing Authoritarian?" So to google I went and found this review of John Dean's Conservatives Without Conscience.

The reviewer takes Dean to task for agreeing with Altemeyer's theoris and veers off to critique Altemeyer's techniques:

[...]
Meanwhile, the RWA survey seems specifically calculated to avoid identifying authoritarian attitudes on the Left. Altemeyer claims to have looked for left-wing authoritarians but failed to find them. If so, this does not speak well of his scientific imagination. One could probably find left-wing authoritarians in an afternoon by asking subjects if they agree that "those with intolerant or bigoted views shouldn't be allowed to express them in public" or "God condemns anyone who is judgmental or intolerant of people who have different religions or lifestyles." Instead, the "left-wing" statements on the RWA survey--e.g., "there's nothing wrong with nudist camps"--merely afford subjects an opportunity to show how free-thinking they are. Not once does the RWA survey attempt to draw out the myriad conventions and prejudices that characterize left-wing ideologies.
[...]

Just sayin'

by daMule on 05/07/2007 10:55:25 AM EST

with that review.  The person obviously didn't read, or perhaps just didn't comprehend chapter 1.  

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their
society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people
have historically been the "proper" authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled,
customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these
followers have personalities featuring:
1) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in
their society;
  1. high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
  2. a high level of conventionalism.
Because the submission occurs to traditional authority, I call these followers rightwing
authoritarians. I'm using the word "right" in one of its earliest meanings, for in
Old English "riht"(pronounced "writ") as an adjective meant lawful, proper, correct,
doing what the authorities said.

...

In North America people who submit to the established authorities to
extraordinary degrees often turn out to be political conservatives, 2 so you can call
them "right-wingers" both in my new-fangled psychological sense and in the usual
political sense as well. But someone who lived in a country long ruled by Communists
and who ardently supported the Communist Party would also be one of my
psychological right-wing authoritarians even though we would also say he was a
political left-winger. So a right-wing authoritarian follower doesn't necessarily have
conservative political views. Instead he's someone who readily submits to the
established authorities in society, attacks others in their name, and is highly
conventional. It's an aspect of his personality, not a description of his politics. Rightwing
authoritarianism is a personality trait, like being characteristically bashful or
happy or grumpy or dopey.

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 11:16:12 AM EST

[ Parent ]
The response from Bob Altemeyer

Austin Bramwell didnt actually research his article it seems, and that fact is glaringly obvious after you read the response.

So I could make the jump, and assume that Austin Bramwell is an RWA in denial.

I support the separation of Church and Hate....

by Pale on 05/07/2007 11:54:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
of an authoritarian personality who didn't agree with the conclusion, so they reject the logic.  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 11:17:35 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Interesting link, damule.  The response by Altemeyer is a good clarification.  I think the reviewer may have read Dean's book but not Altemeyer's.  The reviewer didn't get much right, possibly had a pre-conceived notion.

How does the reviewer get away with this sentence ?

Furthermore, to the extent that the RWA survey measures anything at all, it measures nothing close to what Altemeyer thinks it does.

I can tell you how I could get away with saying that sentence.  If I were a psychologist that had the credentials to critique a peer's work.  Another way would be to cite a recognized expert discrediting Altemeyer theory and measurement scale.  Bramwell, the reviewer, is a lawyer and cites no one in defense of the sentence he writes.

My googling of peer reviews of Altemeyer RWA scale have not been fruitful.  I assume that it has been peer reviewed and found credible in the context of defining and then measuring what it purports to measure.  One would assume otherwise by reading Bramwell's article.

From what I have been able to find the "Global Change Game" was

... created in Winnipeg in December 1991 by a small group of volunteer students from the University of Manitoba

I would speculate that Altemeyer had a big hand in creating the game.  He is not forthcoming with that info in his response to Bramwell's review.  Small potatoes, but it would have been nice to see full disclosure.  If Altemeyer had no hand in the game he should have said so.

The book by Altemeyer and the scale look credible to me.  But what do I know, I am not a psychologist.

Here's a golden oldie - Conserve Water / Shower with a friend

by willy be frantic on 05/08/2007 12:51:22 AM EST

[ Parent ]
 regarding,

    "My googling of peer reviews of Altemeyer RWA scale have not been fruitful.  I assume that it has been peer reviewed and found credible in the context of defining and then measuring what it purports to measure.  One would assume otherwise by reading Bramwell's article."

  there is the following from page 221 of the text:


Chapter 7

What's To Be Done? (1)

If you are a reasonably critical person, by now you've got to be wondering if
you're being buried by a big snow job. Almost without exception, the findings about
authoritarians in the previous chapters have been negative. You wouldn't want your
daughter to marry one, would you? But maybe this presentation has been one-sided.
Maybe [it] has been unfair. Maybe things have been biased.
(2)

  (The emphasis above is added) "(2)", above, refers to the footote which reads as follows, below, from pages 247-248:

(2) So far as I know, only two social scientists have offered basically negative reviews
of my research on authoritarianism. The first was John J. Ray, an Australian
sociologist whose major critique appeared in Canadian Psychologist, 1990, Volume
31, pages 392-393. He will, I am certain, be glad to provide you with copies of his
thoughts. But if you can get the original journal (lots of luck!), you'll find my reply
immediately following his article.

p. 248

The second, much lengthier criticism was published by a Rutgers University
sociologist, John Martin, in Political Psychology, 2001, Volume 22, pages 1-26. I
prepared a reply to it but withdrew it from the journal when the editors told me I
would not be allowed to respond to any further comments Professor Martin might
make. But if you read his article and want to see my response, email me at
"altemey@cc.umanitoba.ca".
A couple of other scholars have offered up alternate interpretations of what the
RWA scale measures (e.g. a need for group identification), but I don't think they'd
disagree with any of the findings presented in this book, just what the results "really
mean"on the deeper theoretical level.

   and regarding the origins of the "Global Change Game", Altemeyer writes in a footnote (24)from page 51,

 (24) I knew about the Global Change Game because one of our sons, Rob, helped
develop it. It has been used from coast to coast to coast in Canada, and elsewhere, in
high schools and universities, to raise environmental awareness. Rob had certainly
heard of authoritarianism.
(Had he experienced it in his upbringing? Never say it!)
He (and other) facilitators might have guessed the independent variable I was
manipulating in this experiment, especially from the conservative dress and religious
emblems worn by the highly authoritarian students at their game. But the facilitators
have little to do with the decisions made by each region in the Global Change Game,
and certainly they had no hand in causing the blood-bath that ensued on high RWA
night.

  (emphasis added)

by proximity1 on 05/11/2007 01:20:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
To which I'll add a link or three for further info about Rob (son of Bob) Altemeyer.

I did not know or realize, for instance, that Rob Altemeyer is a Manitoba MLA (NDP). Facing re-election of course.
Short bio:

Elected MLA for Wolseley in 2003
  • Volunteer composting coordinator for the Winnipeg Folk Festival
  • Co-founder, Global Change Game, a massive multi-player earth simulation game
  • First Waste Prevention Coordinator at the University of Manitoba
  • Two-year board term, Council of Canadians
  • Bachelor's degree in Anthropology, Master's degree in Natural Resource Management

MB goes to the polls, May 22.

This is interesting. He belongs to an organization that I had not heard of until now called "Crossing Boundaries National Council".

a not-for-profit national forum whose mission is to foster the development of Canada as an information society through more citizen-centred approach to government and governance. The project began almost a decade ago and has since been through four iterations, the most recent of which was the Crossing Boundaries National Council

Seems to have a quite fairly diverse non-partisan membership (Rona Ambrose??).

And to close off, a pdf (which I have completed reading as yet) regarding a Bob Altemeyer simulation utilizing the Global Change Game - "What Happens When Authoritarians Inherit the Earth?"

In October 1994, I used the Global Change Game to compare how the earth
would fare if everyone on it scored relatively low on the RWA scale, versus how
things would turn out if everyone scored relatively high. The game is a sophisticated
three-hour simulation of the earth's future, usually involving 50-70 players who are
assigned to various regions on a large map of the world (see www.mts.net/∼gcg/).
It was designed by my son and others to raise environmental awareness, and has
been played, mainly in high schools, in Canada from the Atlantic to the Pacific.
The picture posted here shows part of the map, with groups of students hunkered
down in their various regions.

What kind of future did the low RWAs produce in 1994? An entirely peaceful
one, although 400 million people died from disease and starvation over 40 years
.
But a great deal of inter-regional cooperation eventually produced food, health,
and jobs for nearly everyone at the end. The high RWA simulation, on the other
hand, produced a nuclear holocaust that killed everyone and destroyed the planet
.
When the players were given a second chance to make a better world, conventional
wars still broke out, and global problems of overpopulation, hunger, and disease
went unaddressed. After 40 years, not counting the nuclear war, 2.1 billion people
had died
, according to the complicated formulae used in the game to take into
account the consequences of war, long-term unemployment, malnutrition, and
poor medical infrastructures--five times as many as died during the low RWA
game according to the same rules
(Altemeyer, 1996, pp. 130-136).

The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

by Frank Frink on 05/11/2007 01:46:03 PM EST

[ Parent ]

 thanks for a very helpful follow-up!  Bravo!

by proximity1 on 05/11/2007 01:57:15 PM EST

[ Parent ]
I would assume he checked out Altemeyer's credentials before he used his research for his own book.  Dr. Altemeyer has commented and even posted a diary at DKos.  He seems accessible enough, perhaps he could be contacted by email and asked to provide some comment on peer review of his work?  Whaddya think, should I?

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/08/2007 01:16:06 AM EST

[ Parent ]
you could slog through this.  I hope the link works.  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/08/2007 01:23:25 AM EST

[ Parent ]
I was not so inclined, but I do thank you for putting it up.  I would like someone I know and respect, perhaps some authority figure, to read through the link you provide and then tell me what I should think ;-)

That was quite an interesting link, prole.  Since you put it up I though it only fair to browse through it.  It didn't put up any red flags for me or cause me to question the scale.  

I didn't check the credentials of the authors of the research but they look legitimate.  They use the RWA scale as a measuring and predictive test for their hypothesis.  That says to me that the scale has some validity.  They used, at least in part, a modified version of the scale.

[...]
For our study, some items were replaced with, in our view clearer, translations by Schneider (1997), and some items were slightly modified linguistically.
[...]

As a layman I would think the scale is what Altemeyer says it is.

Some interesting bits in the link :

[...]
RWA was a significant predictor of both attitude toward restriction of civil liberties and attitude toward surveillance measures.
[...]
Even in the context of these variables, RWA was a significant predictor, and in fact the strongest one.
[...]

This one says that RWA and Conservative values are the kind of circular loop that Bramwell damns it for.

Indeed, personal values and political ideology were found to predict RWA

That bit makes sense to me.  That strong conservative values can predict a high RWA score or that a high RWA score can predict strong conservative values does not seem illogical to me.  Am I getting something wrong ?

Here's a golden oldie - Conserve Water / Shower with a friend

by willy be frantic on 05/09/2007 12:11:40 AM EST

[ Parent ]
For my money I wouldn't want to bother the man.  Nothing that I have seen questions the legitimacy of the research.  As you say, Dean went with the scale as a major part of his book.

Contact the good doctor if you wish.  I think he is credible.

Here's a golden oldie - Conserve Water / Shower with a friend

by willy be frantic on 05/09/2007 12:46:46 AM EST

[ Parent ]
Will edit later so as not to get busted blogging at work.  Thanks!

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 12:27:59 PM EST

[ Parent ]
for the heads-up on that embarassing oversight.
 I'm pretty well mortified by it!  Sorry, Dr. Altemeyer!  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 08:38:05 PM EST

[ Parent ]
Sorry I missed it over the weekend (I was playing da blooz).

Logical inconstitencies of RWA's. Spotted one in the newspapers over the weekend. Steve V over at Far And Wide puts it together very nicely.

You appear before a Senate committee and unleash a scathing attack on the consequences of Kyoto implementation. To add weight to your thesis, you consult with a group of independent, "respected", economists who detail the impact. You then use said economists on the Environment Canada website, to further your case

snip..

Fast forward only two weeks later. Those wonderful, respected economists that provided the intellectual underpinning for your earlier arguments, have now come out with some new thoughts, as they relate to your recently released disaster, known as the Green Plan:

snip..

Now what do you do? Apparently, when asked the following day in Question Period, you respond with:

"Baird rejects economists criticism of government environmental tactics"

In the comments thread there, Scotian (a quite erudite blog commentator) offers this reminder:

when the underlying assumptions/premises are bad it matter not how good the reasoning skills brought to bear, the end result is still garbage.

The Grasshopper Lies Heavy

by Frank Frink on 05/07/2007 07:13:04 PM EST

readers will realize that I don't think every Republican or Conservative is a RWA.  Or that every religious person is, either.  For instance, my mom is a very devout Catholic and she's wouldn't score very high on the authoritarian scale. But it is important to remember that there are quite a few of them out there - 23%. That's a lot of people willing to do damn near anything for the right leader.  And they do tend to be right wing conservatives in North America in the greatest numbers.  Not too many Commies to be worried about infiltrating the military.  These days it's skinheads and evangelicals.  

Canadian Republicans Suck

by prole on 05/07/2007 11:12:05 PM EST

23% ± 5% ?

Bush Approval Measured At All-Time Low

May 7 - President Bush's approval rating has dropped to 28 percent in a Newsweek poll released this weekend, the lowest of any president in a generation.
    :-)

by daMule on 05/08/2007 12:15:01 AM EST

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Tony Snow Show 5/7/07
:
Q Does the President think his drop in the polls, to 28 percent, has anything to do with our occupation and escalation in Iraq?

MR. SNOW: Actually, one of the interesting things is here's a poll where 51 percent of those who responded were either Democrats or -- self-identified Democrats or lean Democratic, as opposed to 34 percent Republican, lean Republican. So you've got a pretty good skew here. And the Newsweek polls do tend to be outliers in that sense.

Q Is that Newsweek?

MR. SNOW: Yes, that's the Newsweek poll. Look, the President certainly understands that Americans don't like war. He doesn't like war, either, but he also does not like the alternative.

Q Does he think it has anything to do with his policies, a drop like that?

MR. SNOW: Well, again, I would counsel against this one, it was a pretty skewed set of response.

Fish in a barrel....

    what i find so fascinating about mr. snow is not the fact that he himself is an RWA (he may be but i have doubts), but that he so fastidiously adheres to the stereotype

by daMule on 05/08/2007 12:37:14 AM EST

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